BOATS AND CANALS

Hi all

We've been looking a various sites on the web over the last couple of months with a view to buying a share in a boat. Pretty much decided that we will, however still have some doubts/questions.

Our budget is limited (up to about £3000) for a 1/12th share so a new boat is out of the question. We've been looking at various boats on-line and there seems to quite a large variation in share price for what seems to be pretty much the same age/condition/type of boat, is there a reason for this?

We've also to and fro'd between whether a managed boat is 'safer' than un-managed. We realise that you have to pay a management fee which will increase the yearly cost but is it worth it?

What sort of questions should I ask when considering a particular boat?

Any other advice would be gratefully received.

Sorry for the barrage but having persuaded my wife that this is a 'very good thing', the last thing i want is for it all to go pear shaped.

Cheers Lee

Hello Lee
My name is Pete Russell. We have had a share in a narrow boat for 6 years, Prior to that we hired. It does not take a mathematician to work out the cost against hiring and shared ownership, We get 4 plus weeks a year for an initial buy in fee of around £2000-00 plus, depending on the age of the boat, (Sorceress is 20 years old), then you have your monthly management costs, which varies according to what you (the owners) require for the boat in the future.You save up and create a slush fund for, IE, Winter maintenance, re painting, new engine, replacement of new central heating system, Etc. We have been putting money away for the last 2 years to cover the cost of a full back to metal blast off and re paint. Remember it is you (the owners) who tell your management team what you want, they only advise and get quotations for you, and do the organizing, financing and donkey work, which leave you free to enjoy your boating. Sorceress has 11 shares giving a guaranteed 4 weeks (1 early 2 summer and 1 later) and then 8 weeks for winter maintenance. The maintenance usually take 4 weeks So the extra weeks come on a first come first served basis.
If you decide to go for a share that is self managed then the donkey work has to be done by someone, and we usually find that that ends up on the shoulders of one or two members of the syndicate, which can lead to certain animosities creeping in, because others just sit back and do nothing.

At the moment, and as far as i am still aware, a share in our boat has become available due to one of the owners having become ill and is now unable to continue boating.

I hope i have helped in trying to explain the basics. Please send me a PM if you want to ask any questions.

Regards Pete

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Pete Russell NB SORCERESS

Welcome to the forum Lee.

I had an idea that Pete could and would help you.

Thanks Pete.

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Maurice

Please click to go to our associate sites

Foxshaw Gardens Online & Boats and Canals

Thanks Pete.

You've pretty much confirmed what I what felt about managed v non-managed. It's nice to hear it from someone who's actually doing it.

We're hoping to look at a couple of boats with shares to sell this coming weekend. What sort of questions should I be asking and what should I be looking out for?

Have you any idea of the type of layout? IE, aft galley, mid galley, how many births, toilet facilities such as cassette or pump out systems, (most share boats are pump out). Also the type of boat, trad, semi trad, or cruiser style, once you have decided and find the type that suites your liking then. Firstly the age of the boat and it's initial bye in cost. You say your budget is about £3000, Then the boat will be around 12 years to 15 years old. Ask if the engine has been replaced , or the central heating system, and if so when. You don't need to ask about servicing or boat safety scheme as they are compulsory and a managed boat will automatically be done as scheduled maintenance is carried out by the marina staff. Also try and find out something about the other owners, if there is one about to ask, even the boat yard may be able to answer that question.

Good hunting
Pete

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Pete Russell NB SORCERESS

We carry a list of all the shares currently available as advertised by BCBM, boatshare.co.uk, Carefree Cruising and Ownashare. The list includes self-managed boats as well as those managed by one of the three management companies. It can be searched and sorted and it's updated daily.

We don't sell shares (or anything) - we just provide information. Clicking on a boat in the list will take you to the details provided by the company advertising the share.

I hope that helps. Good luck with your search.

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All the best,

Andrew C
boatshare4u.co.uk and sometime owner of shares in Sojourn, Sorceress and Sundowner

@Pete Thanks again for the advice. We're going to stick with the tried and trusted when it comes to type of boat: semi-trad, standard layout, approx 6 berth.

@Andrew Have used up millions of electrons reading all the information on your site. Have found it really useful, especially to someone who a couple of months ago hadn't really heard of boat shares.

I'm glad it was helpful - but I'm always open to suggestions for improvement!

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All the best,

Andrew C
boatshare4u.co.uk and sometime owner of shares in Sojourn, Sorceress and Sundowner

Apologies for resurrecting an old thread but I think its appropriate.

Firstly thank you for the loads of info on here on all things boating. Whilst we are new to this forum we are not new to boating. Having said that its about 8 years since we did the Four Counties Ring (Andersen Boats, Middlewich)

But now we are considering buying a share. Probably upper limit about £7000. I've also crawled all over BCBM site and I probably need to speak to them, but I would be interested in views on the following:-

1. How secure is your share? If BCBM go bust does the fact they appear to open a bank account for each syndicate boat protect our share of the boat?

2. Timeshare has a bad reputation for resale in some quarters. Does boat share suffer the same reputation?

3. Is it possible to negotiate the price of a share? I never pay the initial trade in value with my car and motorhome. Is it 'bad form' to haggle without being rude or unreasonable?

4. My wife has concerns that a narrowboat may be uncomfortably cold during the winter week. Boats will obviously vary but aren't they cold(ish) and drafty in winter?

5. Who picks up the tab if a syndicate member defaults on monthly payments? I see BCBM say they will pursue in Court but if there are no funds available by defaultee, a Court Order is of limited use? Anyway how big an issue is this in the real world?

Sorry for all the questions

No need to apologise, that is what the forum is for.

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Maurice

Please click to go to our associate sites

Foxshaw Gardens Online & Boats and Canals

Hello Arthur
This has been passed over to me as i am in a share sindicate.
Firstly, you must remember that you own one part of the share, The management company are what they are, MANAGEMENT. That is to say they only look after your requirments. I say requirments, and not your needs. Therefore if they go bust you can either go to another management company or do self manage as a lot of other syndicates do. Remember its your share not theirs.

TIMESHARE. This is not timeshare. timeshares are fixed weeks where you buy the week. Here you buy a share of the boat, it's yours, and to resell it if you wish to.

Everything in this world is negotiable and buying a share in a boat is no different. If the management company are selling on behalf of an owner they should pass your offer to the seller for consideration, or you can deal directly with the seller.

Your wife needn't have any concerns over being cold in the winter. they are fully centrally heated and also have solid fuel stoves as well, and when they are fired up you can't sit near them.

We had a member who unfortunately fell on hard times, The decision by the syndicate, (not the managment co) was to purchase their share, less what they owed. Then resold the share. Going through the courts cost money, time and can cause of a lot distress, especially if the defaulter is hard pressed.
look at it another way, if the share is £7000, and the defaulter owes £1000 that share is bought by the other 11 owners it's less than £550 each and no hassle. you resell and put the monies into your boat's maintenance fund , less to pay later.

With regards to bank accounts most companies are very transparent,
With our company each boat has its own account and each owner can access that account via the company's website and see what is going in and out, and for what.

I noticed that you mentioned BCBM, remember there are other companies.

Ownershare cruising http://www.ownasharecruising.co.uk/ (Who manage our boat)

ABC leisure http://www.everythingcanalboats.com/

Also more info' from Andrew Cooley http://www.boatshare4u.co.uk/

I hope i have answered your questions, they are as the best i know.

Good luck in you quest.
Pete Russell

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Pete Russell NB SORCERESS

Brilliant Pete. Thank you. My homework continues .....

Arthur

And thank you again for the links Pete. I've had a chance to study other management company websites.

I've also noticed that a lot of boats have bow thrusters. Hire boats we've had in the past have not had this and it would have been useful for some tight turns/winding/mooring.

Are bow thrusters at the bow only or stern as well

Arthur (Perth, Scotland)

Apologies if some of this repeats what others have said.



You would be the absolute owner of the share you buy. The syndicate may (should!) have rules about what happens if you default on your running cost payments and this may include sacrificing your share if the extent of the default reaches the alue of the share. The rules may also mean that you can't use the boat if you default on payments. Otherwise the share is yours and (except in the case of a new boat where not all the shares have been sold) the management company will not own any part of the boat. Each syndicate should have its own bank account, but a management company may be authorised to operate it so that they can carry out the maintenance, etc. as instructed by the syndicate. Most syndicates now seem to have a system for paying operating costs monthly, which also reduces the risks.

I was involved in trying to get the fact that syndicate members were the owners clearly established when Ownerships went bust in 2010. We had extensive battles with the receivers, but the upshot was that they had no claim on the boats - or on shares that had been 'bought back' by the company using funds provided by other owners. None of the current management companies operate buy-back schemes.



As has been said, boat share is NOT timeshare. You own a share of the boat and the syndicate rules will determine how time is allocated. There are a few schemes with fixed weeks, but the ownership is still of the boat, not the time.



Yes. You are unlikely to be able to do this with a brand new share, but when an existing owner offers a share for sale, the price is an asking price - just as for a house. Don't expect too much movement, though. The asking price will have been set with the full knowledge of the prices for shares in similar boats. We don't sell shares, but we do list all the currently available ones here. Remember that you're buying the share from another owner - and that you may be the seller one day!



The central heating on most shared boats is good and they nearly all have solid fuel stoves as well, which keep the boats very warm and snug.



This should be covered in the syndicate agreement, but essentially it has to be the other members of the syndicate. A management company will take action over this - and it can be difficult in a self-managed syndicate. The agreement may also deal with special cases, such as the death of an owner.

In fact defaulting is a fairly rare occurrence, although some members may be late payers! It can help if the syndicate insists on monthly standing orders for paying operating costs.



If you've got any more, fire away. We're here to help.

Just for the record, there's lots of info on our boatshare4u.co.uk website, which you can take at face value as we don't sell anything and we don't have a vested interest. If you want the opportunity to see and compare boats and management styles, the next Boat Share Show is at Overwater marina on 9th and 10th September 2017. I'm expecting all four management companies - BCBM, Carefree Cruising, J D Boat Services and Ownashare - to be there, and it's also open to self-managed boats. There's information about this year's National Boat Share Show at Braunston on our website.

Good luck with your search.

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All the best,

Andrew C
boatshare4u.co.uk and sometime owner of shares in Sojourn, Sorceress and Sundowner

Thank you Andrew. I've been all over your website as well. Excellent ...... every day's a school day ....